Shader isn't laying ink


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aliascows

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Hi, I'm having trouble laying ink with my shader needle. I'm currently running with a dragonhawk mast pen and my liner is working as it should but my shader just isn't laying any ink. I just don't know what I'm doing wrong. I went to my leg to practice because maybe the fake skin didn't want to take, I can make a line with 1 needle on my shader but to use all 4 just isnt happening, help!
 

TexasPT

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It's probably the pen
or the needles
or the ink
or it's technique

I can narrow it down to that with what you've given here.
 

aliascows

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It's probably the pen
or the needles
or the ink
or it's technique

I can narrow it down to that with what you've given here.

I'm using 7m on 8 volts with black dynamite ink
The pen works beautifully with my 5RL lining but the shading just isnt taking. I've tried 3 cartridges so it's not faulty cartridge. Maybe I just lost the ability to shade somehow Youd think SOME ink would accidentally go in if I were doing it wrong
 

TexasPT

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you'd think...but you ARE doing it wrong. otherwise ink would be going in. You could take the cartridge, dip it in ink with the needle poking out and you could put ink in the skin...you wouldn't even need the machine.

stretch. fixes most issues.

I don't know anything about mast pens but maybe that's not enough voltage?
 

aliascows

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you'd think...but you ARE doing it wrong. otherwise ink would be going in. You could take the cartridge, dip it in ink with the needle poking out and you could put ink in the skin...you wouldn't even need the machine.

stretch. fixes most issues.

I don't know anything about mast pens but maybe that's not enough voltage?
I'm good with the stretching but you're absolutely right I actually have not tried messing with the voltage yet. I'll hook it up to a car battery and stab myself later, appreciate your time!
 

TexasPT

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be sure you report back...I'd be interested to hear. I've never had to turn up voltage on a rotary because it would line but not pack color. Typically, voltage goes the other way when it's time to shade. On my pen I pretty much run the same speed the whole time unless I'm putting in angry lines :)
 

Niko2614

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It's tough to speak on since all machines are different and volts on my machine will be completely different than it is on your mast pen. As TexasPT said it could be a number of issues and I usually turn my volts down for smooth shading I line at 8.5 volts and shade around 6-7.5 using kwadron needles to line and Cheyenne mags to shade with. Maybe slow down stretch (I know you said you do but you'll be surprised a lot of people dont stretch enough) depth could be a issue. More info would be useful such as ink brand needle brand power supply technique being used and most importantly pictures
 

Pizzalicious

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I would try turning your voltage down before turning it up. I’ve never used a Mast but, with my rotary pen I have to slow down for color packing. For shading 8v would work. If you’re trying to get good saturation, stretch like you would for lining. Check your angle, try going past 45* a bit. Also shake the hell out of your ink before you use it. Maybe your needle isn’t sticking out as far as it needs to. Feel the vibration in your stretching hand ( should feel like putting your hand on a bass speaker). Try making small circles In the direction of your needles. Sorry if I’m just spouting off things you already know, haha.
 

crimbo79

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I have the Dragongawk Esscence pen and Extreme S3 rotary and Ihave found similar issues with colour packing .

I know it is my technique and the fact i have only been using them a month or so (Extreme S3 only used 1time so far) but i have found they both work better with the thicker inks that i have.

Great with the Dragonhawk inks and Eternal that are very thick not so good with grey washes and Kuro Sumi outline ink.

Like I said probably just my technique but thats what I have found.

Stay Safe
 

Fodor_ink

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I also use a mast pen. I shade at like 7V and it has worked just fine.... try using a round Mag. Or push a little harder. Idk, seems like a weird problem lol
 

crimbo79

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Got mine running pretty good now at 6.5/7.0 with 9cm carts stretching more has helped aswell.
 

Gally2020

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be sure you report back...I'd be interested to hear. I've never had to turn up voltage on a rotary because it would line but not pack color. Typically, voltage goes the other way when it's time to shade. On my pen I pretty much run the same speed the whole time unless I'm putting in angry lines :)
IMG-20200614-WA0007.jpg

hi
id love a bit of feed back on this peice i did yesterdaY..Its my fifth tattoo on a human and im nowhere near where i want to get..tips on achieving that smooth marble ststue effect in shades would be great..thanks
 

Gally2020

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View attachment 23761

hi
id love a bit of feed back on this peice i did yesterdaY..Its my fifth tattoo on a human and im nowhere near where i want to get..tips on achieving that smooth marble ststue effect in shades would be great..thanks
used spectra x edge with wireless battery supply
empire inks brand
9 volts line
7.8 8.3 range in shading
 

TexasPT

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looks like you are off to a good start. the head is too small for the face and the shading doesn't make a ton of sense...but it appears to be put in well.
 

Gally2020

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yes i actually morphed two pics together as the skull referenece was just a face..the shading was basically copied as best i could from the pic my client gave me..so in future would u recommend using my own initiative as to how the shading should go as oppsed to copying a ref pic..certainly now u mention it the crown of skull is too small..hopefully the normal person wont take too much notice at least he seemed happy with outcome..im still just doing them as favours and am thankful for the skin been offered too me..i tell my friends before hand that any we can try work out any errors and to not expect professional standard work yet..im gonna continue studying this stufff and working my balls off...thank you very much for the response i truly appreciate it..ive a guy looking for a pirate ship tattoo on the leg next..could i maybe show u ref pic and stencil and maybe couple questions on what way to go about it so shading is better
 
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DKJ

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yes i actually morphed two pics together as the skull referenece was just a face..the shading was basically copied as best i could from the pic my client gave me..so in future would u recommend using my own initiative as to how the shading should go as oppsed to copying a ref pic..certainly now u mention it the crown of skull is too small..hopefully the normal person wont take too much notice at least he seemed happy with outcome..im still just doing them as favours and am thankful for the skin been offered too me..i tell my friends before hand that any we can try work out any errors and to not expect professional standard work yet..im gonna continue studying this stufff and working my balls off...thank you very much for the response i truly appreciate it..ive a guy looking for a pirate ship tattoo on the leg next..could i maybe show u ref pic and stencil and maybe couple questions on what way to go about it so shading is better
Hi Paul,

don't hesitate to post your design here before you tattoo, you will have a lot of help and critics.

And with that, you'll be able to start off a good and well-thought reference, which is maybe 50% of a good tattoo.

Peace,

DKJ
 

Ronan73

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View attachment 23761
hi
id love a bit of feed back on this peice i did yesterdaY..Its my fifth tattoo on a human and im nowhere near where i want to get..tips on achieving that smooth marble ststue effect in shades would be great..thanks


If you want feedback then i will from a head drawing perspective and the tattooing can be picked up by someone else...If there is a tattoo you want to do just copy and trace someone else. This is frowned upon but at our level and the type of tattoo that you have done it would be tough for someone to prove you have copied them. There is no shame at all. Would you rather do a great tattoo or not copy a random drawing you found on the internet incase one of the millions of tattoo artists sees it and thinks you copied their skull?? i know what id rather be known for.

if you want realism criticism?

If you want to do better realism then ...
-I agree with Tex, your shading is all over the place. Pick a spot to use as a light source and stick to it.
-Also life like realism doesnt have lines or edges, just shade blending into other shade.
-the skull is obviously under our face so a skull has the exact same proportion points as a face. so learn facial perspective techniques. look up loomis method. its not my favourite way but its a good way to learn.
_ finally.. look up an app called skeleton. I use it a lot when drawing heads at an angle to give me pointers. its a skeleton that you can freely move around as needed. its really useful. I started doodling skulls on everything because its all I was thinking about.lol. obviously you age it and add or take away as needed.
 

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Gally2020

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Thank you so much..really that's excellent tips for me to take away and try focus on and rectify..maybe I should take an art class as am understanding of light and shading would maybe improve..I just live to draw new actually learned properly. How do u deal with nerves and did u ever get them at beginning..I'm ok after first 10 minute but a bit shaky first few minutes then I settle in eventually
 

Gally2020

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Hi Paul,

don't hesitate to post your design here before you tattoo, you will have a lot of help and critics.

And with that, you'll be able to start off a good and well-thought reference, which is maybe 50% of a good tattoo.

Peace,


DKJ
Thanks mate..
 

DKJ

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thetattooyoyo
Thank you so much..really that's excellent tips for me to take away and try focus on and rectify..maybe I should take an art class as am understanding of light and shading would maybe improve..I just live to draw new actually learned properly. How do u deal with nerves and did u ever get them at beginning..I'm ok after first 10 minute but a bit shaky first few minutes then I settle in eventually
I only experienced the shakeness over my first tattoos, more from the vibrations of the machine than from stress.

I thought about it, but you could try some redlines (needle without ink) on yourself to get a more relaxed feeling, without the stress of putting ink in skin?

But the pros should tell about this because first thing which comes to my mind is: "doable, but won't the needle get overheating from the friction with the tube?"... You shouldn't hurt yourself !

Maybe using water as if it was ink, to cool down the needle?

Let's see what they say about it.

Peace,

DKJ
 

DKJ

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And for a cheaper price than an art course, you can start with some Youtube tutorials and some books on the matter.

It's sometimes difficult to find a good and unforgiving teacher in Art schools and courses.

Peace,

DKJ
 

MalligaMallan

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Don't tattoo without dipping in water or ink! I did that once and nearly killed my patient it hurt so badly ? The needles probably get overheated.
 

soulstare22

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i usually have this issue when the needle hang is too long. but there are many other variables

a simple fix is too make sure that the needle goes back into the tip atleast 1/3-1/2 the length that comes out, depending on how bad the inkflow is.

another issue is if the ink is too thick, maybe add a few drops of water to it. also stretch, if the skin is too elastic u get flow problems as well. also if the machine is too fast less ink sticks to the needles as well.
 

DKJ

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i usually have this issue when the needle hang is too long. but there are many other variables

a simple fix is too make sure that the needle goes back into the tip atleast 1/3-1/2 the length that comes out, depending on how bad the inkflow ii
That's interesting, but i don't get how you do that?

On my rotary, the lenght of my needle is fixed and the movement is always the same lenght too (i can't adjust how far it will start or how far it will end its course.)

Can your example only apply to coil tweaking?

Peace,

DKJ
 

Pizzalicious

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If you research the “5 value” system it will change your drawing forever. But you have to practice the rules ?.
 

soulstare22

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That's interesting, but i don't get how you do that?

On my rotary, the lenght of my needle is fixed and the movement is always the same lenght too (i can't adjust how far it will start or how far it will end its course.)

Can your example only apply to coil tweaking?

Peace,

DKJ

no for ur type of rotary u just move the entire grip/tube up.

needle hang is the length that the needle comes out the tip. stroke is the length of the entire motion the needle makes including before it exits the tip. u can change the needle hang but not the stroke.
 

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